Transcripts of Gurdjieffs Meetings 1941-46 p. 179
Donnerstag, 24. Januar 2013
Kundalini
sex gossip
I have heard a great many stories and a great deal of gossip about Gurdjieff's own reputed sexual practices, most of which were obviously untrue and seemed to stem from the fact that anyone who has set himself up as a leader, or who has a "school" of an unusual nature, must also, more or less automatically, have an unusual and varied sex life. The only somewhat unusual truth about this aspect of his life that I know to be a fact is that he did have children by a few different women to whom he was not married; a normal, if not legal, performance, and a far cry from the practices, rites, and orgies which I have heard ascribed to him.
Even now, many years after his death, I find that it is not uncommon for people who know of him by reputation to inquire about his sexual practices, often suggesting that they must have been not only very interesting and unusual (and, incidentally, that I had certainly either participated in them or at least knew all about them), but even a part of his teaching; they are always disappointed - one might say even disillusioned - to learn the opposite, particularly to learn that he was married, reacting almost as if that was the final sin for anyone of his "peculiar" stature.
Even now, many years after his death, I find that it is not uncommon for people who know of him by reputation to inquire about his sexual practices, often suggesting that they must have been not only very interesting and unusual (and, incidentally, that I had certainly either participated in them or at least knew all about them), but even a part of his teaching; they are always disappointed - one might say even disillusioned - to learn the opposite, particularly to learn that he was married, reacting almost as if that was the final sin for anyone of his "peculiar" stature.
Remembering Gurdjieff (Chapter VIII)
Dienstag, 22. Januar 2013
Americans and Sex
Gurdjieff, who did not usually - in my experience - have any particular taste for opinions or "gossip" about his groups or his disciples, seemed very much interested in my remark and pressed me for details. I went on to say, with a good deal of self-righteousness, that I was leery of his group in Chicago on at least two counts: their phony reverence, as I called it, and their tendency to use his work as an excuse for sexual promiscuity or at least a good deal of talk about sexual promiscuity. Being further prodded by him, I went on about their conception of morality seeming to me to be based almost entirely on sex and not on other customs.
He smiled at this and then said, to my surprise, that he found this completely understandable. "In fact, this is perhaps even good thing you tell me about group people. America is still very young, strong country. Like young people everywhere, all Americans very interested, very preoccupied with sex things. So very natural for them talk and act this way. And not bad thing they do. I tell many times that all work must start with body; like I tell many times that if wish observe self must start from outside, by observing movements of body. Only much later can learn how observe emotional and mental centres. Young people not have very much inside, so not much to observe yet. And this is also good thing, one of reason I come to America and have many American students. Europeans already blase, know everything, or think know about philosophy, religion, other such things. This not true. They only have already formed inner self that makes them rotten inside because formed with unconsciousness. Americans more receptive because not closed up inside yet; they naive, stupid, perhaps, but still real. Americans, particularly, have more chance grow properly as men because have not yet become - like you say - ´phony´ men.
He smiled at this and then said, to my surprise, that he found this completely understandable. "In fact, this is perhaps even good thing you tell me about group people. America is still very young, strong country. Like young people everywhere, all Americans very interested, very preoccupied with sex things. So very natural for them talk and act this way. And not bad thing they do. I tell many times that all work must start with body; like I tell many times that if wish observe self must start from outside, by observing movements of body. Only much later can learn how observe emotional and mental centres. Young people not have very much inside, so not much to observe yet. And this is also good thing, one of reason I come to America and have many American students. Europeans already blase, know everything, or think know about philosophy, religion, other such things. This not true. They only have already formed inner self that makes them rotten inside because formed with unconsciousness. Americans more receptive because not closed up inside yet; they naive, stupid, perhaps, but still real. Americans, particularly, have more chance grow properly as men because have not yet become - like you say - ´phony´ men.
Remembering Gurdjieff (Chapter III)
Sonntag, 20. Januar 2013
sexual relationships
At certain times he led a strict, almost ascetic life, having no relation with women at all. At other times, his sex life seemed to go wild and it must be said that his unbridled periods were more frequent than the ascetic. At times, he had sexual relationships not only with almost any woman who happened to come within the sphere of his influence, but also with his own pupils.
Bennett - Gurdjieff: Making a New World p. 231
spiritually a dead end
"Gurdjieff was puritanical, even a fanatic about homosexuality, and condemned it vigorously... he felt that homosexuality - as a career - was a dead-end street"
Fritz Peters - Balanced Man p. 43
Freitag, 18. Januar 2013
had 4 women in 1904
R. read beforehand from "Skridlov" and at the end Gurdjieff came in and was amused to see seven women in the room and no men. "Now not interesse me. Forty years, forty-five avant, very much interested me. Not now."
He turned to Vera and said something rather indistinctly to her in French which R. and I did not hear properly - something about "how in such-and-such a place he had been very rich and had had four women...!"
He turned to Vera and said something rather indistinctly to her in French which R. and I did not hear properly - something about "how in such-and-such a place he had been very rich and had had four women...!"
Idiots in Paris 1949 p. 93
Donnerstag, 17. Januar 2013
three Sexes exist
Excuse me, do not get angry, but for me, three sexes exist, masculine, feminine, and intermediate sex. Excuse me, but from the beginning, you have been on the list of the third sex. There are five or six people like this, neither men nor women.
Paris Meeting, 10.August 1944
http://gurdjieffsex.blogspot.de/2013/01/a-real-man-can-demand-everything-of-his.html
http://gurdjieffsex.blogspot.de/2013/01/a-real-man-can-demand-everything-of-his.html
Real Marriage
He said that there was something—a kind of relationship that rarely existed in modern times—that was worthy of the term "real marriage"; that marriage as we knew it was nothing more than legal sexual intercourse, and that since most people, men and women, were sexually motivated and therefore needed variety, such relationships rarely lasted and usually ended in divorce. He said that there were occasional exceptions to this rule—when a deeper, more valid relationship developed out of something that was purely sexual in the beginning, but that this was rare.
Fritz Peters - Remembering Gurdjieff (Chapter VI)
Dienstag, 15. Januar 2013
Women don´t need this Work
Shortly after the earring episode with Mme. Stjernvall, he brought up once again the question of men and women, their roles in life, and, as an additional element, the specific roles of the sexes in his work or, for that matter, in any religious or psychological work which had self-development and proper growth as an aim. I was surprised and puzzled then, and many times later when he spoke on the subject, by his reiteration of the fact that not only was his work "not for everyone" but that "women did not need it." He said that the nature of women was such that "self development" in his sense of the phrase was something that they could not achieve. Among other things, he said: "Nature of woman is very different from that of man. Woman is from ground, and only hope for her to arise to another stage of development— to go to Heaven as you say—is with man. Women already know everything, but such knowledge is of no use to her, in fact can almost be like poison to her, unless have man with her. Man have one thing that not exist in woman ever: what you call 'aspiration'. In life, man use this thing—this aspiration—for many things, all wrong for his life, but must use because have such need. Man—not woman—climb mountains, go under oceans, fly in air, because must do such thing. Impossible for him not to do; cannot resist this. Look at life around you: Man write music, man paint pictures, write books, all such things. Is way, he think, find Heaven for self."
When someone did object that the sciences and the arts were not, after all, exclusively confined to the world of the male, Gurdjieff laughed: "You ask question about woman artist, woman scientist. I tell you world ill mixed up, and this true thing I say. True man and true woman not just one sex—not just male or female. Even you," he made a sweeping gesture covering all of us, "sometimes understand this because sometimes you surprised when you see man who feel thing like woman, or woman who act like man; or even when in self feel feelings proper to opposite sex. "We all live in what we call universe, hat this only very small solar system, smallest of many, many solar systems— even very unimportant place. For instance, in this solar system, people bi-sexual: necessary have two sexes for reproduction of kind—primitive method, which use part of a man's aspiration for creation of more people. Man who can learn how to achieve higher self—how go to proper Heaven —can use all this aspiration for development of self, for what you call immortality. In world as row exist, no man able do this: only possibility for immortally is reproduction. When man have children, then all of him not die when his body die.
"Not necessary for woman do work of man in world. If woman can find real man, then woman become real woman without necessity work. But, like I tell, world mixed up. Today in world real man not exist, so woman even try to become man, do man's work which is wrong for her nature."
When someone did object that the sciences and the arts were not, after all, exclusively confined to the world of the male, Gurdjieff laughed: "You ask question about woman artist, woman scientist. I tell you world ill mixed up, and this true thing I say. True man and true woman not just one sex—not just male or female. Even you," he made a sweeping gesture covering all of us, "sometimes understand this because sometimes you surprised when you see man who feel thing like woman, or woman who act like man; or even when in self feel feelings proper to opposite sex. "We all live in what we call universe, hat this only very small solar system, smallest of many, many solar systems— even very unimportant place. For instance, in this solar system, people bi-sexual: necessary have two sexes for reproduction of kind—primitive method, which use part of a man's aspiration for creation of more people. Man who can learn how to achieve higher self—how go to proper Heaven —can use all this aspiration for development of self, for what you call immortality. In world as row exist, no man able do this: only possibility for immortally is reproduction. When man have children, then all of him not die when his body die.
"Not necessary for woman do work of man in world. If woman can find real man, then woman become real woman without necessity work. But, like I tell, world mixed up. Today in world real man not exist, so woman even try to become man, do man's work which is wrong for her nature."
Fritz Peters - My Journey with a Mystic p.124
Donnerstag, 10. Januar 2013
the Moment of Conception
of heredity and the conditions of our conception. I had never before heard him speak of the importance of the moment of conception. He described the state of the father and mother: how they lie together in bed and experience the sounds and scents coming from the garden, and are happy; and so a human seed is sown that is destined for happiness. But if they are full of passion, angry with one another or with anyone else, or if the father is only thinking of his cheque book and how much the baby will cost—then all these influences filter the seed, and the essence is formed with tendencies to hatred and avarice. GOD is not responsible for this. He made man to be clean: if he is now dirty it is his own fault.
J.G. Bennett - Witness p.270
Dienstag, 8. Januar 2013
a real Man can demand everything of his wife
P: One must not be angry, never negative?
Gurdjieff: You must be the opposite. Science says a woman is hysterical, she has five Fridays in one week. Man, a real man, has one Friday. Science of all epochs explains this. If you are not master of your state you do not know which Friday she has today. What you have decided, put that into her. You tell her. Even if she is at Friday number three, do the same number four or number five—do the same. If you continue a hundred times, a thousand times, she will transform herself and will receive that which you wish. You are obliged to be a man; she is obliged to fulfil her obligations as a woman. You cannot be egoist. You are a man. You ought to demand of her that she be woman. If the man is an egoist, he is merde. He wants to do everything (as it pleases him, by chance) and he expects his wife to be a woman? Little by little it can happen that she may reach the same state as him; either nature does it or it becomes established by force of law. Begin at the beginning. If she has five Fridays a week and if you, not being a man, have two or even three Fridays in a week, first of all, try, like any normal person to have only one Friday each week. When you succeed in having only one Friday, she too will have only one Saturday. Logical thought even automatically makes understandable the present, past, future and the rest. The man must be a man. Your question is very original and characteristic for everybody. A man can demand everything of his wife but he can only demand if he is, in truth, a man. If he is a man of the middle sex it is impossible. This, by the way, exists in all languages: there are two kinds of prostitutes: prostitutes in skirts and prostitutes in trousers. In trousers it is neither man nor woman—middle sex. He who always in his waking state is a man can never belong to the middle sex. Whether it be his mother, his sister or his wife, she will act as she is told to. Woman does not depend upon herself. If you are not a man then you are a prostitute and you suggest to her that which she is.
You are half a man.
[All fall silent.]
Gurdjieff: You must be the opposite. Science says a woman is hysterical, she has five Fridays in one week. Man, a real man, has one Friday. Science of all epochs explains this. If you are not master of your state you do not know which Friday she has today. What you have decided, put that into her. You tell her. Even if she is at Friday number three, do the same number four or number five—do the same. If you continue a hundred times, a thousand times, she will transform herself and will receive that which you wish. You are obliged to be a man; she is obliged to fulfil her obligations as a woman. You cannot be egoist. You are a man. You ought to demand of her that she be woman. If the man is an egoist, he is merde. He wants to do everything (as it pleases him, by chance) and he expects his wife to be a woman? Little by little it can happen that she may reach the same state as him; either nature does it or it becomes established by force of law. Begin at the beginning. If she has five Fridays a week and if you, not being a man, have two or even three Fridays in a week, first of all, try, like any normal person to have only one Friday each week. When you succeed in having only one Friday, she too will have only one Saturday. Logical thought even automatically makes understandable the present, past, future and the rest. The man must be a man. Your question is very original and characteristic for everybody. A man can demand everything of his wife but he can only demand if he is, in truth, a man. If he is a man of the middle sex it is impossible. This, by the way, exists in all languages: there are two kinds of prostitutes: prostitutes in skirts and prostitutes in trousers. In trousers it is neither man nor woman—middle sex. He who always in his waking state is a man can never belong to the middle sex. Whether it be his mother, his sister or his wife, she will act as she is told to. Woman does not depend upon herself. If you are not a man then you are a prostitute and you suggest to her that which she is.
You are half a man.
[All fall silent.]
Transcripts of Gurdjieff´s Meetings 1941-1946 p. 20
how to be a real Man
P: May I ask a question, sir? There is one thing which has preoccupied me for a long time. How should a man act towards a woman so as to be her master and make her happy? To be really master of the situation.
Gurdjieff: Your question is, what is it necessary to do. First of all you must be a man inside yourself. Every woman should feel herself a man's slave. This is the property of women, they are made that way. For that there is a law. You ought to represent the boss, the master. You should consider all things as the master. If you are like that, she, without manipulation, without anything, (it always happens) becomes your slave. Without explanations or anything, it only depends on you. If I am a man I will have a woman. This depends on what I am, what you are. If I ought to have seven wives all seven will be my slaves, perhaps because I am a man. Not only will all seven be unable to deceive me but they will tremble at the mere idea of deceiving me; they feel that they have a master. These seven women always and everywhere are my slaves. This, firstly, is
what is necessary. Now secondly many other things are still necessary. What I have just said is the main thing. Now I say secondly: You are man, she is woman. Nature has given you more possibilities than to woman. You have more physical strength; everything you have more than her. Amongst all these things you
have more logical thought than the woman. You should first prepare her, calm her, put her into a certain state and then logically explain to her what can happen for the future. Show her life not for today but life in a month, in a year, in five years time. As it is established on earth that if husband and wife live well together they will live a long time together, and as life is long it is necessary to explain to her what things she must not do and what she must do. If you explain to her as I have told you, she will do it.
Gurdjieff: Your question is, what is it necessary to do. First of all you must be a man inside yourself. Every woman should feel herself a man's slave. This is the property of women, they are made that way. For that there is a law. You ought to represent the boss, the master. You should consider all things as the master. If you are like that, she, without manipulation, without anything, (it always happens) becomes your slave. Without explanations or anything, it only depends on you. If I am a man I will have a woman. This depends on what I am, what you are. If I ought to have seven wives all seven will be my slaves, perhaps because I am a man. Not only will all seven be unable to deceive me but they will tremble at the mere idea of deceiving me; they feel that they have a master. These seven women always and everywhere are my slaves. This, firstly, is
what is necessary. Now secondly many other things are still necessary. What I have just said is the main thing. Now I say secondly: You are man, she is woman. Nature has given you more possibilities than to woman. You have more physical strength; everything you have more than her. Amongst all these things you
have more logical thought than the woman. You should first prepare her, calm her, put her into a certain state and then logically explain to her what can happen for the future. Show her life not for today but life in a month, in a year, in five years time. As it is established on earth that if husband and wife live well together they will live a long time together, and as life is long it is necessary to explain to her what things she must not do and what she must do. If you explain to her as I have told you, she will do it.
Transcripts of Gurdjieff´s Meetings 1941-1946 p. 19
Donnerstag, 3. Januar 2013
the principal motive force of all mechanicalness
 |
| Sex symbol in a mechanical world / Matrix Movie |
P.D. Ouspensky - In Search of the Miraculous p.254
Mittwoch, 2. Januar 2013
on the subject of Sex
I must warn you that Gurdjieff is far more of an enigma than you can imagine. I am certain that he is deeply good, and that he is working for the good of mankind. But his methods are often incomprehensible. For example, he uses disgusting language, es- pecially to ladies who are likely to be squeamish about such things. He has the reputation of behaving shamelessly over money matters, and with women also. At his table, we have to drink spirits, often to the point of drunkenness. People have said that he is a magician, and that he uses his powers for his own ends.
Others were affronted by his behaviour. They could not reconcile themselves to the drinking at his table and his obscene language. Several were terribly distressed by what they heard in Paris about his private life, and especially his relations with women. They took literally his boasting about his many sons and daughters and his irresistible appeal for women.
I was especially bewildered and even outraged by all that Gurdjieff said in public, and advised me in private, about the subject of sex. He spoke of women in terms that would have better suited a fanatical Muslim polygamist than a Christian: boasting that he had many children by different women, and that women were for him only means to an end. The general impression that Gurdjieff produced shocked those accustomed to regard the sex relation as sacred—even if their private behaviour might be anything but sacred. Gurdjieff always showed the worst outwards and kept the best hidden.
Witness p. 244
Others were affronted by his behaviour. They could not reconcile themselves to the drinking at his table and his obscene language. Several were terribly distressed by what they heard in Paris about his private life, and especially his relations with women. They took literally his boasting about his many sons and daughters and his irresistible appeal for women.
Witness p.250
I was especially bewildered and even outraged by all that Gurdjieff said in public, and advised me in private, about the subject of sex. He spoke of women in terms that would have better suited a fanatical Muslim polygamist than a Christian: boasting that he had many children by different women, and that women were for him only means to an end. The general impression that Gurdjieff produced shocked those accustomed to regard the sex relation as sacred—even if their private behaviour might be anything but sacred. Gurdjieff always showed the worst outwards and kept the best hidden.
Witness p.258
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